EPISODE 118

Kate I have no desire to do anything related to political science now, but communications is a big part of my day-to-day. I started working at a club, the local club. My parents lived in a gated community with a golf course, and I worked at the club over my summer break while I was in college. So I started as a server. After I turned 21, I was bartending. I would drive the beverage cart for tournaments, and I loved it. It was so much fun. I loved the people that I worked with. I went back summer after summer. And then after I graduated from college, I didn’t have a job lined up. I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I was applying for all these different sales positions, and I am not a salesperson. And ultimately, I started managing the dining room at the club kind of as an interim position until I found my real job. The irony of that is now I work with tons of people that is their real job. And I actually loved it. And I actually made a lot more money doing that than I did when I started working at CMAA. But my friend, who was the membership director at our club, the Biedemann Club, had previously worked for CMAA in the membership department with Kim Piscuali, and she knew that they had a position that opened up for student development. And so she connected us, and I interviewed with CMAA. It felt like a great fit. I never really envisioned going the association management route. I was very involved with different professional associations while I was in college related to communications, PRSSA, and the American Marketing Association, but I had never heard of CMAA. As everyone knows, it’s like a pretty nichey little association. But I started working with Kim. I got to go to Hawaii for my very first conference three months later. And sort of the rest is history. I mean, I managed student programs for a number of years and then started career programs. I worked for CMAA for 10 and a half years. And then after I had my first baby, I left because the 90-mile round-trip commute to Alexandria just broke me down. But then I was very, very fortunate to be recruited by the National Capital Chapter about a year later and took on their part-time managing director role. When I started, it was a very part-time role, which was convenient. I was newly pregnant with my second. And I found that I just loved it. It was important to me. A lot of times a job is a job, but the people in CMAA are so special that it keeps drawing you back in. When it came to the student development position, I felt like I sort of outgrew it, but I grew right into the managing director role. It was a nice mix of getting to do kind of what I already knew how to do, but then also kind of get to have my hands in a little bit of everything. Definitely a lot more strategic. And that position grew and grew. The National Capital Chapter, also a large chapter, but a small-large chapter, has since merged with Baltimore and is now the Middle Atlantic Chapter. And so as part of a lot of those conversations as well. But when the opportunity came for the Carolina’s chapter, I was not necessarily looking to leave my job. It was a really incredible opportunity at a really large chapter. We had about 125 members in National Capital when I left, and the Carolinas chapter has over 500. Obviously, regionally, it’s much larger and set up very differently. A lot of resources, a lot of amazing partners, just a really great culture. And so it was really just too good of an opportunity to pass up. So that was three years ago. My anniversary, my three-year anniversary, is in four days.

Derek Congrats.

Kate And it has flown by, but it’s been really, really great.

Derek There are a few other professional service companies like mine that service this industry that might not know what managing director means – people that I’ve talked to that are learning about the CMAA and the various chapters and sizes, etc. Explain what a chapter director does. What’s a day-to-day, week-to-week look like for you?

Kate I work very closely with our board and on strategic initiatives. I manage our foundation, which is our charitable arm and something that we are very proud of. We give out about $55,000 a year in scholarships, $10,000 to $15,000 in student support. So we have a number of scholarships. We have two large CCF fundraisers that we do, and obviously there’s a CCF board as well. So I manage that board. I handle our chapter’s communications plan and all of our marketing. I work with all of our partners, manage our entire partnership network, and all our event programming for our conferences. We have four quarterly events. I feel very fortunate that we’re in a large chapter and that we have the resources to be able to have a support staff person. But what I do on a day-to-day basis certainly aligns with my counterparts all over the country. But I like to say that if you’ve seen one CMAA chapter, you’ve seen one CMAA chapter. It is not a one-size-fits-all. Everybody looks at things from a different angle. There are all size discrepancies from chapter to chapter. We have small chapters who don’t have managing directors or maybe have someone volunteering in that role. And they’re in a full-time position at a club. I am an association management professional hired to manage an association. I feel fortunate here that I have this experience to be able to do that, but also the support from Angela and from my board to be really able to focus on trying to raise the bar all the time with our chapter.

Derek Awesome. That sounds a little overwhelming. You’re not sitting around. This isn’t just like a part-time hobby. This is incredible. You didn’t even mention all the events that you guys have and the different conferences and the planning. I’m sure the calendar gets into a system, but it’s nonstop. The quantity and quality of content you put out, educational for your members, for your partners, etc., it’s a lot.

Kate Yeah, we’re always sort of moving. There’s no real break. We have our quarterly conferences. Each one sort of has its own personality, its own vibe. Our winter event has our awards dinner. Our spring event has historically been a mid-management conference. We did a symposium this year with a golf component. Our summer conference is our longest, most well-attended event of the year. And it has our big wine and widgets auction connected with it. And then our fall conference has our chef at the Carolinas and vendor showpiece. And so, we’re working very hard to make sure we have all of our programming lined up. All our dates and venues are done a year in advance, and making sure programming is locked in as early as humanly possible. And as soon as we basically get through summer conference, we are fully into planning 2027 programming. So it’s definitely fast-paced, but it’s really fun. All the connections that you make while you’re doing all of that keeps you motivated, keeps you moving. But, yeah, it’s a really fun job.

Derek And to your credit, I’ve had the benefit of being at the fall event with the Chef Showcase, and the quality of the events that you put on is top-notch. Watching these professional chefs in their element, basically showing off their wares to all of their peers and colleagues, and getting to witness that and sample that was amazing.

Kate It’s pretty cool, and we are so fortunate because our club chefs are so generous. They’re so excited to participate. It’s a prideful thing. You’ve got the competition aspect of it, the bragging rights. It just really creates a fun environment. And I also think that any vendor show where there’s food and wine, it’s always going to make for a more exciting event. It’s a fan favorite.

Derek Yeah, for sure. I’ll vouch for it. As you mentioned, you didn’t run a club. You didn’t come into this from an operational side. So I think you have a unique perspective when you’re talking with your chapter members in particular, and all the various management levels that they’re at. You have a lens of having worked with, well, at least just in this chapter alone, 170 different chapters. And with all the conversations that you see, how do you think, compared to other chapter directors that did come up through the club management ranks, how is your perspective, your unique perspective, a little bit different in how you see what they’re up to and how you help them maybe navigate some of the conversations that they’re having or looking to you for help?

Kate I definitely think that there is a lot of value to having operational experience. For a lot of my counterparts who have come up through clubs, I think that that really does add a lot of value and perspective. I think I just have a little bit of a different perspective. I mean, I’ve worked in a club, but I’ve never managed an operation. You learn a lot as you go and you talk to a lot of people, and it’s kind of helpful. I feel like I look at things from a little bit of a higher level, just sort of that bird’s-eye view, and having the opportunity to talk to so many people and not just people within my own chapter, people from across the country.

Derek Talk about that a little bit. What’s the energy and the vibe of the people in the chapter right now? What’s going on? What are they talking about?

Kate I feel like it’s a hard time to be a club manager right now. The labor market is just insane. I know, in talking with several of my board members, that the disciplinary things that are going on within clubs right now – members, children of members – that’s become an increasingly more challenging part of their day-to-day. As they have introduced more of these casual outlets where their junior golf programs are growing, they’ve got kids really utilizing the club, but with a little bit less supervision than they probably should have. And so then the staff is being forced to manage some of those situations. It creates difficult conversations. That’s something that I feel like we’re hearing a lot about. I think the age discrepancies right now are because the club memberships are getting so much younger, but it’s still the older members that are on the board. And so you’re looking at people who are making all of the decisions on how the money is being spent, but it doesn’t necessarily align with the usage at the club. I think that you would think that increased usage at the clubs would mean that the clubs are making more money. But the reality is that the more the clubs are used, they’re actually making less money because everything costs so much right now. Wages are so high. It’s hard to keep up with the dues increases to keep the ball rolling and keep these high-performing, fast-growing clubs moving. You don’t want to increase dues 10% every year, but the reality is that costs are increasing by 10% every year. And usage is up 8, 10, 12% year over year. Those are the things that I feel we’re talking about with club leaders in my chapter.

Derek At my club, in the summer, breakfast opens at 9 a.m. And the way that I would use the club, if it opened at 8 a.m., is I would probably eat breakfast there all the time because I literally drive right by it on my way to the office. But I hesitate to go to the GM or to the management and say, Hey, you know what would be really great for me as one person is if the kitchen opened one hour earlier, because I can’t imagine, based on what you just said, the sort of ripple effect that would cause. That’s not just having one person show up one hour earlier. It’s a whole litany of issues that would cause for that one extra hour.

Kate Well, it’s all a giant balancing act, right? I think they want to service their members, but also they have to be able to manage it. I know I talked to one of our board members. Obviously, in the Carolinas, pools open earlier or try to stay open as long as they can. The weather is warm, the pools are being used, but they have maybe four or five members that want the pool left open year-round. That means they would have to heat the pool year-round, which means for four or five members, they would have to assess the members, like an insane amount of money, in order to be able to pay to heat the pool year-round. And so it’s like, do you want to be able to accommodate that for those members? And would that really increase their member experience? Yes. But the reality is for four or five people, you just can’t manage a club that way.

Derek On the flip side, we’ve heard that a lot of clubs are still realizing the benefit of COVID, of growth, the positive sides of growth – full clubs, waiting lists, members excited. It’s interesting because now, when I see full clubs with tons of people there, I have a new lens of what that usage looks like and what that means to a club from a cost standpoint. But is the COVID benefit still a benefit? And if so, along with that, what are some of the opportunities that are happening right now that are the positives for the clubs in your chapter?

Kate I have to feel like this COVID effect is still fully enacted. I think about back to my time managing student programs for CMAA and golf was dying and we had a student award program called the Club of the fFuture and we were sort of using this kind of project-based brainstorming award program to get students to think about what the Club of The Future would look like because if golf kind fizzled, would people still want to come to the club. They have all this other competition in their life for their time, for their money. Are clubs kind of a dying space? And then COVID happened, and I think it was this massive resurgence of clubs. It’s their safe space, and it’s their place to go and be outdoors and be active. I very much feel like with the insane usage and the record-breaking numbers, we’re still feeling the effect of that. I don’t want to call it that, but it’s almost like the before and the after, right?

Derek When you look at the clubs that are doing it well, that are currently succeeding, they’re growing intentionally or not based on what it is that they want to do – what are the clubs that are doing it right to inspire the rest of the clubs and chapters as they look towards the future, towards what they could be doing better?

Kate I think they’re investing more, like making a lot of capital improvements, things that maybe they were dragging their feet on before. I know there are a ton of clubs right now in the Carolinas that are doing golf course renovations or major clubhouse improvements. Definitely, I just think willing to take more chances and do things that are a little bit more off the cuff to try to guard our member satisfaction, increase experience, things that maybe they weren’t thinking about doing before. They’re doing different types of events. I think there’s got to be some level of security and knowing that there are so many people that are knocking at your door. And I think it comes with an opportunity to stretch themselves, to do better, to be better, but also kind of gives them a little bit of freedom to push the envelope and try things and take the risk because they’re not worried they’re going to lose a member and not be able to fill their spot.

Derek I’m going to shift gears a little bit and talk about something that you touched on earlier, which is the partnership program with the chapter. A big part of what you do, what the chapter does, is bringing clubs together with people and companies that serve the club. And I know you do that very intentionally. How does that matchmaking look, to help not only your members, but also the partners? I think people like me who may be new to the industry, who are maybe new to this CMAA, don’t quite understand what partnering or sponsoring a chapter might look like and how it might benefit them and how it actually benefits your chapter members as well.

Kate Every partner has unique goals. Obviously, everyone is trying to grow their business, but we kind of experience it in a bunch of different ways. Sometimes there are people that we are working with, or we have a subject matter expert that we’re asking them to come speak. It seems like a natural progression. We have companies who do a lot of business in the Carolinas already, and they want to support. We have companies that are coming to us because they are looking for growth in their business, and they see the Carolinas chapter as an opportunity because we have such a large market share with over 500 members and over 170 clubs in our chapter. There’s a lot of opportunity. What I tell people who want to come into our partnership network is we’re essentially building a buyer’s guide for our members. We want to have a list of trusted partners that our members can go to if they need something. And partnership is not a short game. It is a long game, because not everybody needs something right now. Kind of building that bench and talking to those people and building trust and investing in those relationships now are going to make them top of mind when they’re going to spend a million-plus dollars on a new wool facility. I feel like it really just depends on the whole partnership piece. It depends upon the partner to kind of really invest the time to come and be part of the chapter, become part of the Carolinas family, build those relationships organically. It is so relationship-driven. There is really kind of that handshake vibe here in the Carolinas. People want to know the people that they’re working with, and they want them to feel familiar with them. And we are so fortunate because our partner network is amazing. People come, and they spend time, and they sit across the table from you in education. And that’s where I feel so many of those important and impactful conversations happen. It’s like you’re working with a speaker, and they have you break out into a small group to talk about leadership style, and you learn something about someone that you didn’t know before. And it has nothing to do with your business. It’s just a connection point. A lot of times I’ll get that question – what do you recommend I do if I’m going to make the most out of my partnership? And it’s to be available, come to our events, and be a part of the group. And you’ll see that investment over time. You’ll feel those relationships build, and you will know that your investment was worthwhile.

Derek Our mutual – I’m going to call him friend. I’m not going to call him colleague – Sean Bleyl, from Members First, who actually listens to this podcast. He’s out walking his dog right now and probably listening to this. So shout out to you, Sean. One of the great pieces of advice he gave me right away, a handful of years ago, coming into this, was that you can’t become a partner. Try it for a year, exhibit at one event, and expect that to translate into success. He said that becoming a chapter partner is not about a transaction. It’s not about making a one-time sale. That it is exactly what you said. I don’t know if patience is the right word, but it’s building a rapport. It’s building trust. It’s doing so by providing education and thought leadership. Of course we want to sell. If we’re going to partner and we’re going to invest our time, that is part of our own company’s marketing strategy. But it’s going to come from sticking it out and building relationships and having people recognize you and know you and building a trusted referral network as well.

Kate Absolutely. And I think Sean’s a perfect example of someone to use. We’ve had a relationship with Sean and Members First and Jonas for a number of years, and they are thought partners. We obviously are very careful about how we plan our programming and what type of education we choose. We follow CMAA’s competency areas to build out our programming, to make sure that we’re touching on all of these important pieces of the puzzle. But having our partners available to us as subject matter experts and people that we can call upon to teach our members new things and advise them on best practices is really invaluable to me as managing director, but obviously to my members who are consuming that information. And, by doing so, it also gives our partners the opportunity to be up in front of the members and really share and give an insight into their personalities, what their companies do, what they’re good at, how they can help. And so I really see those types of opportunities as a no-brainer win-win across the board.

Derek As you look at the next couple of years, whether it’s for the chapter, for clubs in general, for things that you’re putting together for the future conferences, what are some of the things that you are the most excited about that are coming up?

Kate First and foremost, the chapter has been growing. It’s been growing so quickly. And our membership is becoming younger. Our club members are becoming younger. And it’s exciting but also challenging to think about how we’re going to be able to just keep up. We’re asking our members to spend their time and their money and their club’s money and time away from their families to be with us. And so we need to provide something that is really valuable. So it’s a combination of making sure that we’re kind of meeting the needs of our more tenured members and meeting the needs of our newer members, but really building community here within the Carolinas. Anybody who’s been a part of the Carolinas Chapter for a long time knows that there’s the Carolinas Chapter, ride or die. They have been around, and they would do anything for this chapter. But as the membership’s getting younger, we are working on ways that we can continue to facilitate those types of relationships and that bond with newer, younger members that are coming in and trying to retain those members. And ultimately, it’s an opportunity, and it’s a challenge. I think also with the way that clubs are growing and the new members that are coming in, and they’re investing in their professional development. I think that they’re going to have some amazing opportunities for growth and changing positions and new job opportunities and things like that as well. I remember hearing from so many people when I was managing student programs that clubs were so hard because it’s not like a Marriott where you can go through the Marriott training program and then you start with Marriott and then you get promoted and they move you to a different Marriott or a different position within Marriott. Like every club is different. But I would argue that the club business is so much more than that. Every club is different, every club has a different culture, every club is a different size, and it has a different membership. And the community within the club management industry is unlike any other. Everybody is willing to help each other and mentor. They want to see the staff that they’re investing in and they’re building. They want to see them move on and up and into better positions and achieve their goals. Again, we have a lot of opportunity and a big responsibility ahead of us as we’re continuing to grow.

Derek If someone is interested in talking to you, connecting with you, or learning more about how to sponsor a partner with the Carolinas Chapter or attend an event, where should they go?

Kate Just come on over – kate@carolinacmaa.org. Send an email. Angie and I will be happy to help you if you’re looking to join, if you want more information, or if you are interested in partnering. Anything you need, any questions you have, you know where to find us.

Derek Awesome. Thanks again for joining me today. I really appreciate your time.

Kate It’s my pleasure. Thank you.

Derek One thing I’m taking from this conversation – it’s that the long game wins. The clubs that Kate sees thriving aren’t reacting to whatever’s loudest in the room. Rather, they’re investing in the improvements that they used to drag their feet on, building community before they need it and looking to partners well ahead of the moment they’ll rely on them. Her word for it was familiar. Be there, be available, and the value compounds over time. That’s true for clubs. It’s true for partners, and it’s a good reminder for all of us. One more thing before we go. If you’re finding value in these conversations, we’d love to have you reading Clubs Made Meaningful Insights. Not episode recaps or highlights, but original thinking. Frameworks, perspectives, and ideas on identity, belonging, and member experience that you can bring to your board or leadership team. Sign up at clubsmademeaningful.com. At Sussner, we help private clubs build brands that create belonging. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone in your club world. And until next time, let’s create something worth celebrating.